Muslim Marriage: Bio Data Gone Bad. Freckles Responds (Part Two)

by HijabMan :: posted 5 August 08

HijabMan’s Note: The following is the second part of a guest post by Freckles in response to the Muslim Marriage Monster article below this one.

Before my previous post appeared on Hijabman, I mentally prepared myself for the onslaught of the judgmental, hurtful, and hateful comments I’ve become all too accustomed to receiving from my so-called brothers and sisters on the issue of my marriage. When the comments were positive and thoughtful, I was happy and relieved. The genuine curiosity and respectful inquiry was certainly a refreshing contrast to my expectations. Now, to answer a few questions.

A little background on Mr. Freckles: He was raised as a Christian, and had a period of what can only be called zealotry in his early adolescence. Ever seen the film Jesus Camp? That’s the gist of it. After that, he rejected the church, and then God altogether. As he explains it, “I don’t necessarily believe there isn’t a God, but I haven’t seen empirical evidence that He exists.” He had been presented with a notion of highly emotive faith without substance or grounding in his youth and the more rational aspect of his being as an adult led him to the other extreme, so to speak. His friends hail from all sorts of religious backgrounds, and he has an appreciation for religion and spirituality, but doesn’t adhere to one himself.

That said, there is no conflict in our lives where religion is concerned. I do my thing, and he does his. He spends a lot of time on sports forums discussing sports (obviously) and politics, and whenever someone starts dissing Islam or Muslims, he always comes to me for information so he can refute what’s being said and set the record straight. He doesn’t believe what I do, but understand the need to defend beliefs against misinformation and slander. When we discuss religion, I don’t proselytize, I don’t pressure him to convert, and I never will. I’m living proof that if God chooses to lead you to Islam, you’ll find your way there. Our discussions are often interesting, but never adversarial.

During Ramadan, I fast alone, although he is supportive of me. Since my conversion, I pretty much always fasted alone amongst people who neither understood nor approved of what I was doing, so flying solo isn’t unprecedented for me. I do my prayers at home, in the office, or (rarely) at the mosque. My religion has always been more about my own personal connection to God, and so while the community aspect is nice, I don’t find it essential to my faith. I have a few close Muslim friends, but found the community in general to be somewhat unwelcoming. Many of the practices, particularly the use of a solid partition in the prayer hall at the local mosque don’t jive with my personal beliefs or my interpretation of Islam, therefore I rarely go. I look forward to a day where I live in a place where I might find a more welcoming and open community, but I’m fine on my own, too.

The issue of children is also interesting, given that they would have one Muslim parent and one agnostic parent. I would certainly teach our children about Islam, give them plenty of informational resources, and be open to any and all questions, but I would not force them against their will to be Muslims. I’d be lying if I said that I wouldn’t hope that they would follow God and the ways of His Messenger, peace be upon him, but as God said and the Prophet reiterated, “There is no compulsion in religion.” I want their religion to be sincere, heartfelt, and self-informed, and I’m willing to risk their rejection of the faith in order to accomplish this.

I don’t cover my head, except when I pray or visit the mosque. I do dress modestly, which is something my husband particularly likes. While he certainly has an appreciation for the beauty of the female form, he dislikes seeing it on blatant public display, particularly when it’s mine. He never tells me what to wear, of course, but he often tells me that he likes my style. We have not discussed the issue of the headscarf because I do not intend to wear it. I’ve always felt that the headscarf is more of a state of mind and spirit, and while some may say that statement is a cop-out, I would rather walk around dressed modestly and be true to my religion than to wear such a powerful symbol and not uphold all that it represents. If I ever felt absolutely compelled to wear it, I’m sure there would be plenty of discussion in the Freckles household, but ultimately it would be my decision when, where, and how I wear it.

The question from TMoney regarding whether I felt, to paraphrase, guilty about my marriage outside the faith is an interesting one, and I certainly welcome it, without any stabbing. In a nutshell: I respect scholars for their immense knowledge, but I do not let them make my decisions for me. If I encounter a dilemma that I can not resolve on my own, I turn to a variety of scholarly opinions to help me. However, on the issue of marriage, my beliefs were certain. I appreciate your contribution of the opinion of El Fadl, because I have consulted a number of his opinions and found them helpful, thoughtful, and well-written. I do disagree with him (and many others) on some points of the arguments that Muslim women may not marry outside the faith. For instance, the notion that a man will force his wife to change her religion is, from my perspective, ludicrous. I realize that can and does happen, but it is hardly inevitable or common, especially in this day and age. Why would a Muslim woman who truly believes allow herself to be so easily swayed in such an important matter? Are women supposed to be that weak-minded and helpless? I’d hope not! Additionally, if a Muslim woman abandons her religion for another so readily, do you think she was truly a Muslim to begin with? Say she marries a Christian, converts in name only, but holds on to her Islamic beliefs. Isn’t she then still a Muslim, if what really matters is in the heart and not in word and deed? There are many arguments to be made on both sides of the table, and personally, I believe that God addressed this issue ambiguously for a reason. I won’t pretend that I know what that reason is, but neither should anybody else.

All this said, I don’t pretend to speak for all Muslim women in interfaith marriages. For women who cover their head, there’s probably a very different dynamic, because there is the outward expression of (hopefully) her inward belief. Because no one else in my family is Muslim, I did not have the same sorts of issues that women who come from Muslim families face, and that also makes my situation different. A friend of my husband’s did have to convert before marriage to appease his wife’s family, and there were many cultural and religious issues to overcome for their relationship, but so far, it’s worked out well. For others in similar situations, it has not. Life, and marriage, are not one-size-fits-all.

azlin at 5 August 08 :: #

>>In a nutshell: I respect scholars for their immense knowledge, but I do not let them make my decisions for me. If I encounter a dilemma that I can not resolve on my own, I turn to a variety of scholarly opinions to help me.

This is the most powerful message in the whole entry. This is how I live my life. This is what I teach my 3 yrs old son to live by.
baji at 5 August 08 :: #

articulate and honest. thanks for taking the time and courage to speak about this issue. “Life, and marriage, are not one-size-fits-all.” i totally and completely and i-think-i’ll-have-it-tattooed-on-my-arm agree. ;)
Sarah at 5 August 08 :: #

Hey Freckles. Thanks so much for this post. It’s incredibly helpful to understand how your marriage works and to realize that it’s really not that complicated! I was especially interested in hearing about how you plan on raising your kids, and in reading about that I realized that regardless of whether the parents share the same religion or not, raising kids with any religious faith in this day and age is difficult anyway! Society constantly pushes us to question our beliefs, and so raising kids by strong-arming them into blindly adhering to a faith, from what I’ve seen, ends up backfiring big-time later on in their lives.

We therefore have to adjust our approach in the way we raise the next generation of kids by understanding the specific challenges that they will face as they grow up, and unfortunately there’s no certain formula. I appreciate your response: “I want their religion to be sincere, heartfelt, and self-informed, and I’m willing to risk their rejection of the faith in order to accomplish this.” It’s a really scary thought, but I think this risk is there no matter what, because we can’t think for our kids, they eventually have to think for themselves.
ModerateGal at 5 August 08 :: #

Wow, I am so happy to hear another sister who views marriage, hijab, raising children, conversion etc., in the same way that I do. Kudos on a well written blog. It’s actually kind of scary – these are the same points that I bring up to friends and family.
Noor at 5 August 08 :: #

Freckles, I agree with you on so many levels. I have so much I would like to say, but if I am lucky, Hijabman will let me have some space to do a guest post also. There are some issues I’ve been dealing with lately that are similar to yours, but also others that are dissimilar.
maye at 6 August 08 :: #

Freckles, thank you for sharing.

Noor, how did your family react to your marriage to a non-Muslim? I am preparing to broach the topic with mine and I wonder how you handled it.
Noor at 6 August 08 :: #

Maye, it wasn’t a big deal really. They were more interested in me being happy and well supported by someone who was honorable than they were about much of anything else. But, I do have to say that my family has not been very “religious” – I would describe them more as spiritual. My parents were “children of the 60s” and therefore have a more laidback attitude towards a lot of things. They sometimes surprise me with their openmindedness and liberal thoughts. I wish you well in your conversation with your parents and inshallah they will consider your happiness to be important.
Laila at 15 August 08 :: #

Many of my Muslim convert sisters have left the Muslim community and I don’t blame them. Don’t get me wrong, their still practicing Muslims. When some of them converted to Islam, they were already happily married and had children. Do you know what the Muslim community told these women? They were constantly told “you can’t be married to a non-Muslim man” you have to get divorced from your husband, become a single mother and raise your children in a BROKEN home. Or don’t convert to Islam. WTF, raise your children in a single-parent, broken home because this is better for them. I can’t stop crying, I’m a child of broken promises myself. The impact it had on my siblings and me academically, emotionally, socially…..it ROBBED us of a stable home of a good future chances. We were raised by an exhausted single mother, we lived in POVERTY. Whatever, we have all heard this before.

Why, would a community that should be discouraging divorces are actually enforcing them on Muslim women, not even Muslim men. Why would any one want to rob another person (child) from having a stable home? Statistics illustrates that most European converts to Islam are WOMEN; women are making up twice the numbers of newcomers. And the Muslim community is harassing, and browbeating them into divorcing their spouses, and if they have children to raise them in a broken home.
SICK
TMoney at 15 August 08 :: #

Salam Freckles –

Thanks for addressing my question sans stabbing. I appreciate your openness and willingness to share despite the threat of controversy.

My only corollary question arises from your current post’s mention of your husband’s stated religious position. It occurs to me, perhaps erroneously, that the sole premise of the permissibility of female marriage to non-Muslim males is predicated upon the idea that the specific permission of Muslim males to marry non-Muslim females is reciprocal (the sub-classification being, women from ahl ul-kitab,of course).

I’m not asking because I want to be all up in your biz, but for the sake of public discourse:

If your husband is not, as I understand it, from the People of the Book by measure of his stated affiliation or practical adherence, then to what do you attach the validity of your marital permission?

Again, nobody stab me, if you can help it.

* * *

On a separate note, this series of posts arose from the marriage monster post which talked about the limited options for Muslim female sexual behavior when “marriageable” men or general marital options, period, are scarce: what are readers’ thoughts on the so-called misyar marriage status to at least mitigate these concerns?

As reference, this marriage is one where the pair can legally have relations but do not have any other responsibility to one another, e.g. no mahr, different homes, etc. It differs from the conception of mut’a in that there is no timed dissolution of the marriage, rather it ends in divorce, per normal.
Freckles at 16 August 08 :: #

Wa’alaikum, TMoney. You said, “It occurs to me, perhaps erroneously, that the sole premise of the permissibility of female marriage to non-Muslim males is predicated upon the idea that the specific permission of Muslim males to marry non-Muslim females is reciprocal (the sub-classification being, women from ahl ul-kitab,of course).”

The verse most people cite when arguing for a prohibition of Muslim women marrying outside the faith is 2:221, which mentions nothing of the People of the Book. It does contain a prohibition of marrying the mushrikin (disbelievers). As with all of the Quran, you have to consider things in their historical context in order to even approach understanding (although we can’t forget, “Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth.” 2:255). The disbelievers, as I understand it, were the pagan tribes of 7th century Arabia who were actively hostile to the Prophet (pbuh), his companions, and his message. Marrying one of the tribespeople would have certainly been risky, and it seems as if this prohibition was intended to protect the early Muslims. The tribal society was brutal, especially for the women, who were regarded as mere property. A Muslim woman married to a tribal man would certainly have been mistreated, perhaps killed, and a Muslim man married to a tribal woman would have likely faced retaliation from her kin for “stealing” their property.

In this day and age, the prospect of interfaith marriage is (usually) less risky. One common argument that I’ve heard to justify the prohibition against marrying outside of the faith is that my children will “automatically” be born into the faith of the father, and therefore not Muslim. However, some research (http://islamlib.com/en/article/the-empirical-facts-of-interfaith-marriage/) has shown the opposite to be true. Children born to Muslim mothers and non-Muslim fathers are more likely themselves to be Muslims than children born to Muslim fathers and non-Muslim mothers. Part of this is attributed to the significant role many mothers play in the religious acculturation of their children. I particularly dislike the “what about the children” argument because it appears to be a man-made argument masquerading as a religious precept. That kind of stuff is pretty dangerous. It’s one thing to misinterpret with good intentions; it’s quite another to attempt to speak on behalf of God. And of course, God knows best.
TMoney at 16 August 08 :: #

Salam Freckles – Thanks for the specific response with your reasoning. I have to say this is quite an interesting idea and despite being a hardliner, myself, I have seen little solidly documented in English-speaking discourse on this topic, in general. Most arguments take the shape of “children take the father’s religion” line of thought.

It’s been brought up and was true that many women converted historically ahead of their spouses when the Islamic message was being promulgated. We certainly need to see some more exposition on these specific cases because they could provide a valuable premise (one way or another, Allah knows).

My inner Devil’s Advocate (God’s?) leads me to ask, however, what the logical end of this style of reasoning is. For instance, it was posed to me by my non-Muslim uncle-in-law whether a hermetically sealed, pure and clean, organically raised pig could ever be Islamically edible.

He’d reasoned, perceptively, that perhaps the goal of the prohibition, thus, was health-related.

If we believe that in the time and place the ruling’s appropriateness had to do ONLY with sanitation, then I think we should all probably commence eating clean-raised pork.

But, then, what differs with respect to prohibitive textual references between the above marriage case(s) and the case of pig meat?

i.e. what is the endpoint of analogically using the principle used in determining this marriage permission?

But to agree: the what about the children argument is quite simplistic.

My main concern is that our heritage is born of brilliance in juristic acumen and if we depart from perceived norms, are we doing so with principled juristic backing in hand – or will this never happen anymore given the state of Muslim scholarship?

Thanks again, Freckles!
Freckles at 16 August 08 :: #

I’m always up for intelligent discussion, so it was certainly my pleasure to respond.

The prohibition of pork (something we share w/ Judaism) is an interesting issue. As a vegetarian, I have a particularly different view of it altogether, as I don’t think it’s right (for me) to eat ANY animals. I did a lot of research on meat before giving it up, and all other things being equal, pork generally has the highest risk of containing harmful bacteria. In the heat of the desert with no refrigeration or preservatives, eating pork would have certainly been like taking your life into your own hands. Nowadays with our factory farming system, eating any meat can be pretty risky, but it’s not completely safe. If a Muslim just really wanted to try pork (for whatever reason) and bought a baby pig, raised it humanely, fed it only the best food (acorns, probably) and then slaughtered it according to halal principles, thinking that what they’re doing isn’t wrong, I would not presume to have the authority to contradict him. That said, I wouldn’t do it! Pigs are actually kind of cute, when they’re not wallowing in mud.

While I agree that traditions are important and are essential for holding groups together, equally important are the differences of opinion we bring to the table that help advance us all as a society. An ideal framework for Muslims should be a society in which we have flexible structure. A bridge without any expansion joints will buckle under very little weight, but add in a little room for natural movement, and the bridge can handle its traffic effortlessly.
ammena at 25 August 08 :: #

freckles.. Im very intrigued by these posts of yours. Did i miss how u met your husband? Im also interested in the wedding ceremony. was it before u converted? or did u have a nikah? ive found myself in a situation and just remembered reading this blog awhile ago. shukran

Welcome! This site serves two main purposes: to entertain and educate the Believing and curious community, and to generate a bit of cash—God willing. But there’s a lot more about HijabMan.

Muslim Marriage: Bio Data Gone Bad. Freckles Responds (Part Two)

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